Terrestrial Orchid Forum

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: goofy
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:34 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

fred wrote:

... from the moment you start to grow & water something in it. From that moment on nutrient content starts to change and competition floats in............

I doubt, that you are right.

The material is not dry, but it is slightly moist.
It has that 'ideal' moisture, which is excellent for growing the tubers all time.

Insofar it is to assume, that the contained microorganisms 'work' since added in production. and they not only benefit the growth of plants, but also the rottting process begins, even if the closed bag is stored in protected cool and dry place. So the 'special beneficial structure' of the material will get lost over a 'certain' time.

Insofar I think, the ability of promoting the growth of plants
is limited from about date of production.
and that date is UNKNOWN.

cheers

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: fred
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:35 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

goofy wrote:

5 months...
...from production date
...from buying date
...from using first time

... from the moment you start to grow & water something in it. From that moment on nutrient content starts to change and competition floats in.

Needless to say that you shouldn't expect the same result from a bag that's been stored in the shed for a few years, just like pure peat or standard gardening soil it can become contaminated with all sorts of nasties if given enough time.

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: goofy
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:35 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

berthold wrote:

Neudohum has a better protection effect against infections for about 5 months

there is no 'production date/time' on the package

so what?

5 months...
...from production date
...from buying date
...from using first time

cheers

Grow Lists :: RE: The unsane-growlist 2010

Author: unsane
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:16 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 4

Hi,

new in the last weeks:
Habenaria schimperiana
Malaxis calophylla

dead:
Geodorum purpureum

Giveaway:
Eulophia andamanensis, brown flowers; the green one flowers better with me. I think that the brown one needs more humidity to flower good, because a friend of mine has more luck with a piece of my plant with regular spraying.

General Asian Orchids :: RE: Pecteilis radiata

Author: fred
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:47 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 8

It's the site where I think you found it, the bottom photo is of cv 'Hishou' and the photographer's technique is the same. Kent has moved his site a few times over the past few years, which may explain why you lost it.

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: berthold
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:02 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

tkodka wrote:

I just want to say something more

I think is a mistake to say that Neudohum is magic etc etc. It is not only the soil the factor for sucssesfull culivation.There are many other factors like air humidity , sunlight,rain, etc etc and maybe a combination of all these are the cause of these big tubers.Of course soil is the most important and that' why this post is too long..

Tassos

Neudohum has a better protection effect against infections for about 5 months than other substrates.
The big tubers are caused by the high content of nutrients and the physical structure of the substrate

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: tkodka
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:31 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

I am very sorry I wrote a wrong word. I would like to write "successful cultivation" not "successful germination".Forgive my english.

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: berthold
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:47 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

tkodka wrote:

It is not only the soil the factor for sucssesfull germination.
Tassos

Tassos germination is a complete different field. There the soil must be comfortable for the germinator fungus and that is not Neudohum. What they like is a mineral substrate with a maximum of 1% organic fungus food.

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: tkodka
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:01 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

I just want to say something more

I think is a mistake to say that Neudohum is magic etc etc. It is not only the soil the factor for sucssesfull germination.There are many other factors like air humidity , sunlight,rain, etc etc and maybe a combination of all these are the cause of these big tubers.Of course soil is the most important and that' why this post is too long..

Tassos

General Asian Orchids :: RE: Pecteilis radiata

Author: goofy
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:11 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 8

Fred,
what I see, these are different pics............... ? ! ?

(or need new eyeglasses)

General Asian Orchids :: RE: Pecteilis radiata

Author: fred
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:50 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 8

goofy wrote:

but unfortunately I dont remember the site of this pic.

Looks like the photo originates from Kent's Australian Terrestrial Orchid Website.

Seedbank :: RE: Bug

Author: fred
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:30 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 1

I'm glad to report that the error has been resolved. Unfortunately it was rather subtle and I had to redo a large portion of the code, hence the delay.

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: neil4768
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:08 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

Thanks
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General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: goofy
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:52 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

neil4768 wrote:

Dieter

and further down its says

with "bodenbelebenden" micro organisms, but not sure what "bodenbelebenden" translates as from German

that means, there are "organismns which live in the soil".

That says NOTHING about the type of organisms.
and whether they are naturally in a soil from composting or added (something like "Rootgrow" or "Inoq")

If you make new compost/humus from shedded leaves, you will have many different organisms, fungi , bacteria, which make "ripen the compost", thats totally natural.

this addition of "mit bodenbelebenden........." for me means,
that the compost is not "sterilized".......................
with all benefits and all problems of a "living" compost.

some persons report, that they had "small little black flies"
(Trauerm�cken) coming out of the Neudohum,
and their larvae feed on the roots of plants..........

so you have to use insecticides.......................

as a result,
I dont know what the "miracle" of Neudohum is made of.......

cheers

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: tkodka
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:09 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

Thanks Betrhold I will think about it.
Just another photo for comparisons.
Tubers of Spiranthes spiralis.Last September the tubers had the same size and I plant them the one in pure Neudo and the other to a semi anorganic usual soil.
Look the result.The pencil is of for calculate the size.

Tassos

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: berthold
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:17 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

tkodka wrote:

This year I will try to increase the Ph of that soil in the pots with Ophrys because I think Ophrys need a little alcalic PH and Neudohum's PH is a little acid.

My advise, Tassos do not do that. Ophrys can stand a higher pH-value.

In-Vitro :: RE: Seed longevity

Author: neil4768
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:59 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 6

I was at Kew's Millennium Seed Bank at Wakehurst, and read an article about this process, but the seeds are unable to germinate after this.
_________________
My growlist
Looking for Dactylorhiza ebudensis,Dactylorhiza incarnata subsp. pulchella
The Hardy Orchid Society

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: neil4768
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:50 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

tkodka wrote:

.I think it is not only the fungi that contains but is the way it holds the water.Not too much , not too little ..

This is also a quality of the lignite.
_________________
My growlist
Looking for Dactylorhiza ebudensis,Dactylorhiza incarnata subsp. pulchella
The Hardy Orchid Society

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: tkodka
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:03 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

Hello again
I used in the past all the kind of soils.I used peat, blond or black , I used total non-organic soil like pure perlite or perlite mixed with light stones or vermiculate ,I used soil from my garden etc etc.All these years this year was the best I had. I used pure Neudohum .I think it is not only the fungi that contains but is the way it holds the water.Not too much , not too little .This is my opinion.This year I will try to increase the Ph of that soil in the pots with Ophrys because I think Ophrys need a little alcalic PH and Neudohum's PH is a little acid.

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: SzPeter_hu
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:08 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

Did anyone compare Neudohum with any other products or with leaf-litter and top-soil mixture collected in a forest? Does it really have any advantages? Even though it seems excellent according to your trials, maybe other substrates would be just as good as this if anyone gave them a chance. Or is Neudohum really superior above all else?

In-Vitro :: RE: Seed longevity

Author: SzPeter_hu
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:54 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 6

If you need further help, search for detailed information about the TTC method for testing seed viability.

As much as I know, it uses a chemical that is converted to a (photosensitive ?) red pigment in living cells. Any appearance of red colour indicates metabolism (i.e. live embryos) even before the first signs of swelling could be seen.

In-Vitro :: RE: Seed longevity

Author: SzPeter_hu
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:11 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 6

Wei Mi wrote:

Do you think the close-up observation of the embryo characteristics is an efficient indicator of chances of germination?

No. Microscopic observation shows only whether the embryo is present or not. Some species are easy to germinate (Ophrys, Anacamptis, Dactylorhiza) while others are very difficult (Cypripedium, some Orchis). Anacamptis morio seeds with 5% embryos present may give you better germination than Orchis purpurea seeds with 100% embryos. Also the visual characteristics of the embryos do not show if the seeds are alive. I had bad experiences (with species that are very easy to propagate), when fresh seeds with fine embryos did not germinate at all. I don't know the reason why. Also embryos may loose viability after long time, or warm and humid storage but these changes are not visible. Fresh seeds may be viable but and after 50 years they are not. Still they appear the same under microscope.

A good close observation may predict which seeds are good and which are bad, but this is just 80% certainty. To be absolutely sure, a germination test must be done.

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: neil4768
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:59 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

Dieter

This is what Neudorff say about the mixture

Substrate manufactured by using bark , wood and coconut fiber , lignite and mineral NPK fertilizer and iron

and further down its says

with "bodenbelebenden" micro organisms, but not sure what "bodenbelebenden" translates as from German

http://www.neudorff.de/produkte/produkt-katalog/katalog/neudohum-pflanzerde.html

andrew wrote:

Are people going off Berthold's idea that the bio-inoculant in Neudohum is the primary benefit?

No I think that does have benefits as well as proved from my experience of using the friendly fungus in Rootgrow, but who knows?
_________________
My growlist
Looking for Dactylorhiza ebudensis,Dactylorhiza incarnata subsp. pulchella
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Venus shoe family :: RE: Cypripedium reginae

Author: Cvz
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:27 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 2

Thanks for the reply - the plant's foliage is rapidly wilting and going off this week so it will go (forcibly ) into dormancy this weekend!

I think I will have to do the fridge thing - our spring is already starting so trying to keep it cool enough for dormancy will be difficult outside or any other place for that matter.

Thanks for the verdict on the acid-loving /hating. There is so much contradictory information out there on the web, you simply cannot get a straight fact.

WIll keep you updated!

General culture :: RE: Neudohum

Author: goofy
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:51 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 76

hey,
who says, that the Neudohum contains "lignite/ brown coal"
as a "secret" of its success?

the list of "ingredients" does not show this.
it only states expressively that Neudohum
does NOT have peat in the formula.

and the company does NOT state,
that there are any "special" fungus in the soil..........
(except those from "normal/natural" rotting composts)

so NOBODY KNOWS

cheers